Theory on recovering CPU and DVD keys (Get comfortable, long post)

[n00bpwner360]

OK this is a theory I have been cooking for the last couple of days.

DVD Key (This is more of a "How to get DVD Key from drive you don't know DVD key to")

Data coming out of the DVD drive is encrypted using the DVD key and then dencrypted using the DVD key in the NAND.

OK sure, sounds good. Now lets say we have a drive that works, but we can't dump it, like the new LiteOn/Phillips

Since we know the data on a the disc (we can explore the contents of any 360 disc, Kreon Drive) can't we sniff the SATA bus somehow?

If we can stiff the SATA bus we can intercept the data. We can intercept it in its encrypted form though. But we know what it is unencrypted, since we have access to the files on the disc with a kreon drive.

So if we could find out what data is sent from the drive to the motherboard starting at point A to point B (Maybe like, IDK, the first 5 seconds of inserting the game) in the unencrypted form, and we could capture the data in the encrypted form, it would be a simple brute force attack. Just generate all of the possible DVD keys, and decrypt the encrypted data with each key, and see which one is equal to the unencrypted data.

Capturing the Encrypted data-How...um...I have NO clue...probably some time of SATA bus sniff or something of the similar.

Capturing unencrypted data-We can change the DVD key using the Infectus modchip and Linux and KK and blah blah, but it is possible. What if we convert the DVD key to something like (these aren't the right length) 000000000000000000000 or 1111111111111111111111 or AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA or something very plain in hopes of not encrypting the data at all.

Can we delete the DVD key? Can we have the motherboards DVD just be blank? Same thing with the DVD drive? That way we could get the DVD drive to send unencrypted data across SATA....

So...in a couple of months (if this is possible and pursued) an attack to get the LiteOn drives DVD key would be the following.

1. There would be a game that would be standard (let just use king kong what the hell) that it would be known, the first lets say 512kb data read when launching the game, and we would know EXACTLY what it is unencrypted.

2. Hook up your Lite On drive to a pass thru SATA cable or something and somehow be able to capture all data sent over the cable.

3. Launch King Kong and have some type of system whether it be mod chip or computer capture the first 512kb of data (it is encrypted remember) sent over the SATA cable.

3.5a Hopefully someone will have created a rainbow table or all possible DVD keys.
3.5b Hopefully we will have found out how the motherboard decrypts the encrypted data using the DVD key.

4. Using a brute force program, it will decrypt the encrypted 512kb of data using each and every DVD key (or until it finds a match) until it decrypts the data to an exact match of the unencrypted data that we hopefully captured a while ago when changing the NANDs DVD key to 00000000000 or w/e.

So I am pretty sure this could work seeing as if we could get these couple of things. These things below only need to be done once

Be able to determine how the motherboard uses the DVD key and decrypts the data, without this we can't brute force decrypt X data.

When you launch a game the same exact X number of bits of information is passed thru to the motherboard. Of course it is different on all systems because of the differing DVD key encrypting the data differently, but you understand what I am saying, the same exact X number of bits is accessed in the same order on the DVD with the laser each time the game boots. Therefore we know when launching X game, we know that X data is going to be encrypted and sent, and it is always going to be X data every time on every console. Maybe differnet bits of data are sent over depending on each boot of the system, that would present a problem.

Capturing X data that I talked about above. We need to know exactly what this X data is.

So there can be one game out there, maybe King Kong since a lot of people might have it for the KK exploit. (It would have to be an original game) That someone would have to find out X data will be sent at X time and X data (unencrypted) is "A1 03 F3 D7" (or w/e)

Everyone wanting to get the DVD key would have to do this.

Find someway to sniff the data coming out of your DVD drive.

Sniff the data when launching the X game that we know what X data is.

So we can sniff X data and we know that we exactly have X data but it is encrypted.

Get a brute forcing program to decrypt X data with every single DVD key possibility until we decrypt X (encrypted) data to X (decrypted known pubic) data.

I am sure that this attack is possible seeing as though we can do all of those things, but can we brute force the DVD key within a week or some other feasible amount of time?

CPU Keys

Should be a lot easier, and if we can get the CPU key of a system, we can dump the KV and get the DVD key.

OK, this is how it goes.

I don't have an Infectus modchip, so I have never been able to use that little piece of software that decrypts the NAND, but I know that you need the 1BL key  (which is the same for all consoles) and the CPU key to decrypt the NAND dump and then extract the KV and other things.

But it seems like you should be able to do this.

Dump the NAND on a system that you don't know the CPU key to.
Dump the NAND on a system that you DO know the CPU key to.

Now, this hinges on all NANDs being kind of the same, which I don't know if they are. Like for instance, at sector X there is data X unencrypted. Or there is a file dashboard.xex filesize X somewhere in the NAND. The details can be worked out later, but there has to be something that is the same for every unencrypted NAND out there. (file locations or sizes or w/e)

So, someone makes up a gigantic rainbow table of all of the possible CPU keys, and we brute force decrypt the NAND dump you get off of the system until you get  a decrypted NAND that complies with the ruleset (the ruleset being the name I am giving to the similarities I talked about earlier) So decrypt with a different CPU key until you get X data at X point or w/e

Seems decently straightforward, except I would like to be able to recover the CPU key before the Xbox 720 comes out. And I am wondering is that possible

My closing statements

So has my 30 minutes of typing been in vain? Will both of these take longer than my life to brute force or is just plain impossible (I think the DVD one is not quite possible but might take less time brute forcing than the CPU key)

Or am I a genius who has possibly opened up the opportunity of buying those 5 dollar set of 2 motherboards off of ebay and making them play games one day?(No lie there is a set of 2 motherboards on ebay for like 5 bucks and like 15 some shipping right now) And I am leaning towards I am not a genius but you never know, my IQ is 136 so maybe I just thought of something no one else has never ever though of....

I don't know, and god bless you if you have read this whole damn thread.

[Arakon]

NANDs are not all the same. they're in fact encrypted per console, so they're basically 100% different between different systems.
and you can't modify the dvd key in the nand at all unless you know the cpu key.

[n00bpwner360]

$#!t. Ok then it is impossible to recover CPU keys via brute force is what you are saying?

But as for changing the DVD key, I only meant change it to 00000000000000 to possible have the DVD not encrypt the output data so as we can capture "X data" or w/e this would be on a system we have the CPU key to and can run linux on.

[damn!]

So, first you can't downgrade newer consoles (with CB 1921), so the Kernel isn't vulnerable -> no King Kong exploit. The second thing is, for runnig the King Kong exploit you have to Downgrade AND you have to start a modified COPY of King Kong to run Linux. Wihout DVD-Key no hacked FW, wihout hacked FW no modified copy of King Kong.

[n00bpwner360]

Ugh. You don't understand. We only ever have to run KK exploit on any console. It can be a Xenon or Zephyr. And as for changing the dvd key to 0000000000000000 that is only needed to hopefully have the DVD drive not encrypt the output data over SATA so we can capture X data.

X data we only need to capture once but it has to been the same on every copy of the game.

Like the first 512kb of data transferred from a certain game.

Once we know X data we can sniff it on the new drives, and then we can brute force decrypt X data until we get it unencrypted.

[safety]

I like approaches my self too.

What problems I see is..
I'm almost sure that the drive sends its keys way before a game disc can be played..
Allso bruteing this key is a slow process for each drive.

Probably this idea is a shot at the moon just like many of mines.
But realy, it is respectfull You wrote all that stuff.

[Tiros]

A key of all zeros will not "disable" encryption.

Without even getting into how to get them, say you have the cleartext, and the encrypted message.
Given that, you still have no way (other than brute force) to derive the key.

This is just another "brute force"  thread that belongs in the dumpster.
Good Luck

[safety]

No need to be sarcastic..
Did try the best upto the knowledge posessed,
now if everything is o.k. can understand where the concept is un-suitable.

so what?
nothing I guess.
But at least it can be used as reference for others with simular ideas.

[SeventhSon]

But at least it can be used as reference for others with simular ideas.

Not in this section it can't.

n00bpwner360. This is wild speculation and belongs in the general area. This is about the 4th time you've posted a new thread in the technical section that doesn't belong here. It's obvious that you're not a bad guy and that you're not intentionally breaking the rules but it's still very (very) annoying. You don't need a new thread for every post/question you have, use the search feature first and post in an existing topic (even in the non-technical sections).

Please don't post any more threads in the technical sections. Even if you think they belong here.

[n00bpwner360]

Seriously, I swear to god I didn't post this in the Technical section. I remember I specifically told myself NOT to post it in the technical section because of what you have told me before...I guess I still posted there...damn it.

[LittleJonny]

.....anyone tried to hot swap original KK with a hacked one on an unmodded unit, just before it crashes?     (not forgetting to use a verbatim or ritek -r disk at 1 speed)

[gigabite]

you could hot swap any disk as the check is only made once...BUT you STILL need the correct DVD key to run it

gigabite

[SeventhSon]

Seriously, I swear to god I didn't post this in the Technical section. I remember I specifically told myself NOT to post it in the technical section because of what you have told me before...I guess I still posted there...damn it.

No problem. Maybe I was looking at the wrong forum. My coffee addled brain is perfectly capable of such a mistake.


Edit: Ah ha! The redirection topic is still in the technical section. Guilty!

[n00bpwner360]

Seriously, I swear to god I didn't post this in the Technical section. I remember I specifically told myself NOT to post it in the technical section because of what you have told me before...I guess I still posted there...damn it.

No problem. Maybe I was looking at the wrong forum. My coffee addled brain is perfectly capable of such a mistake.


Edit: Ah ha! The redirection topic is still in the technical section. Guilty!

$#!t, but seriously, I remember telling myself, DO NOT post in the Technical section, you have been told about this before n00bpwner360, don't f*** up again, and I guess I did. $#!t. Well...at least with this thread I gave my keyboard a work out....

[LittleJonny]

...ok, so if you can hot swap kk......then why dont we just downgrade, run linux and dump the kv?




Incidently.....  Ive polled the drive with a via MM integrated MB and I can access the drive for 3sec...it just fails on the mtk vendor....given the mtk has the firmware built in on a pic/eeprom....why cant we just ice that part of the chip  and pull the code out with the flick of a switch....?    Or hotswapping (soldered down mtk piggyback) with a pc equivalent that displays the mtk vendor?

IMHO the security patent thats being waved around is likely irrelevant....this is not likely an attempt to stop us..its simply miniaturization at its best



Model no. DG-16D2S

FW Version. 74850C

[Arakon]

...ok, so if you can hot swap kk......then why dont we just downgrade, run linux and dump the kv?

..cause you still need the key to run KK in the first place.

[zouzzz]

By swap : swap KK original with KK patch and boot Linux... no?

[Arakon]

and you are gonna boot the original without the dvd key.. how?

[safety]

only way would be an executeable, signed runiing XBE wich may run linux.
But since no way to sign anything it won't happen.

If dvd key is lost, and no cpu key is known there is no way to recover the thing.

[zouzzz]

Sorry, i don't understand, really, i'm very sorry.

Take a boxe with LiteOn.
Downgrade (TA) the boxe (if you can)
Upgrade to 4532/4548.
Launch kk original and swap with KK patched and boot Linux.
Dump the CPU key and nand.bin
Extract the dvd key.

 
 

edit : oooh, i'm not in the good topic......................... excuse me.