Hacked kernel

[Shaun]

a very fair point very well made (unfortunately)
The sercurity on the 360 retail units is very good, 90% of of the protection schemes has been documented, the console is over 2 years in existance and no 'major' flay has been found (ok you can play pirated media but where is the fun in that ?)
I feel that several things have occured
1) mod makers have turned their back because any detailed hack has been well documented and isnt 'profitable' to persue
2) only 'gen1' xenon conoles are truly vulnerable of which the number out there diminishes every day
3) the folk capable and motivated to persue new hacks have focussed attention on newer machines >ie wii< which some more promise

tmbinc has documented a 'possible attack' in the past months to no fruition, the rebooter project seems to have stalled (for whatever legitimate reason) and I believe there is some legwork in a possible glitch attack but cannot get all the info myself and feel the focus that was present in the downgrading efforts is simply not there :/

[MastaG]

a very fair point very well made (unfortunately)
The sercurity on the 360 retail units is very good, 90% of of the protection schemes has been documented, the console is over 2 years in existance and no 'major' flay has been found (ok you can play pirated media but where is the fun in that ?)
I feel that several things have occured
1) mod makers have turned their back because any detailed hack has been well documented and isnt 'profitable' to persue
2) only 'gen1' xenon conoles are truly vulnerable of which the number out there diminishes every day
3) the folk capable and motivated to persue new hacks have focussed attention on newer machines >ie wii< which some more promise

tmbinc has documented a 'possible attack' in the past months to no fruition, the rebooter project seems to have stalled (for whatever legitimate reason) and I believe there is some legwork in a possible glitch attack but cannot get all the info myself and feel the focus that was present in the downgrading efforts is simply not there :/

word

[gigabite]

for starters...if there "was" a lets just say "hack" (to define anything) do you want to know why it won't be released...because of this "when is the "hack" going to be ready" "if I have X console and I need Y is there anything I can do"...n00b postings and flooded PM/e-mail boxes - the only time it will be released (if there was a hack) is when it is fully completed, working and bug free (and probably a tutorial too)...all I have to say is it is a bit disappointing when you can consider many hands make light work..[I mean isn't that how XBMC got to be where it is ?]...but as a side result of saying there is something n00b postings go through the roof

gigabite

[hopeful]

People are still mixing up "Homebrew" with "hacked original kernel", they are still not understanding that porting XBMC to a (XDK) 360 is still more than just a matter of recompiling, they do not know that a decent MAME port requires things which the original XDK doesn't provide (self modifying code; that was the main reason why the existing MAME port, which was done using a devkit, is said to perform quite bad on complex stuff), they aren't even considering alternatives and they are generally clueless. But I've spent enough time bitching about that, I'll shut up.

There exists code to reload a kernel. It's not easy, it's doable, requires a lot of knowledge, but has been done (however mainly for a certain different situation which is not relevant for us). But: booting into a non-4532/4548 kernel is going to be complicated and likely requires hardware modifications like a dual-flash mod. Now, does this still sound as sexy? You won't be able to run (newer) games, and you won't be able to go live. Shouldn't be a problem for XDK-warez, though. So, one question: If it won't give you games from HDD (cause we will run an old kernel), if it won't give you XBMC (cause of XDK-XBMC being totally non-portable, relying on x86, little endian, DX8-fixed-function, a fast single-core CPU), if going live will still ban your box (due to microsoft's cleverness in some specific design choices), if it won't boot without using the KK exploit (i.e. still requiring a modified firmware): Is this still the "uberhack" you are waiting for?

I see the main showstopper still in the awkwardness of running the exploit. Hardware hackers, where are you? (It's just my opinion, but I see it as pretty unlikely that there will be any other real exploit in the next few years. Lots of smart people looked at the code. All we could do is to invent new ways to trigger the exploit. But that's off-topic here and has already been discussed without any further result).

All of that is exactly my point.

This is not likely to happen, even with talented people working on it. For the next few years at least.

That's just my opinion, but you're an expert and you may as well have agreed.

Regular folk don't understand why the security is so tight this time.

It needs to be explained to them in plain english, by the experts, so they don't get false hopes.


There's nothing wrong with non-contributing tech-tards being 360 homebrew fans.

They have no right to COMPLAIN or DEMAND its arrival, but most don't do that anyway.

It's unfair to give all a bad rap for the loud few.

Most are pretty good fans, though not talented enough to do code/electronics, and many would contribute other things to make this happen, if that was possible.

There's no reason to give them false hopes, when most experts say this isn't likely for a while, if ever.




Does this thread really belong in the technical section? That's my biggest question.

[Pitfall6667]

you people just don't get it...
I end my rant here.

btw, hopeful, it seems like you're contradicting yourself over and over again - schizo inside? I really have no doubt about it!

[hopeful]

you people just don't get it...
I end my rant here.

btw, hopeful, it seems like you're contradicting yourself over and over again

No offense, but learn to read. Don't blame others.

This has been my point the entire time.

You managed to somehow interpret every post backwards, and insult me for no reason in the process. It seems it never sunk in that I kept pointing out "that's not what I said"?

I never defended "is it out yet" whiners. I was attacking them.

The only thing I said in favor of non-contributors was...

Those who can't contribute code/hardware aren't all bad. Most of them appreciate this hard work, and don't say ungrateful crap like "is it out yet". They shouldn't punished for the few assholes who do.

I said one thing that could have been confusing, in my first post. I talk about how it would be uncool to hide something like this:

I partly mean, they aren't hiding anything. The experts are doing this (selflessly) to help everyone. If there was something out there, we'd all know.

My point has always been "This topic is incorrect, and it's going to fan the flames, and let down (the good) fans." I never once contradicted that.

I wasn't admonishing the experts, I was trying to show appreciation. (And clear up speculation.)

If I didn't word that clearly enough, I apologize, but I tried my best.

[safety]

The funny parth here is the "why don't U do it Yourself??" thingy.

2 probles with that..

first, if it WHERE managable by some kiddies, this forum would just not make sense.
The scund problem is, while some people DO have acces to resources needed by the talented people to figure things out, they are not posted.


Even a child could install a forum like this and then post everyone the magical "Why won't You do it Yourself" thingy...

The PURPOSE, the "thing" behind forums like this, is to create a place where people post theyr findings.

Like some programming forums.. No one will do the actual coding for You, but WILL POINT TO A START DIRECTION, and if there are any questions left open, THEY HELP TO FIND AN ANSWER,

instead of posting "Go to hell, and code it Yourself!"...


Some people here have begon to behave like greedy children..
"bebe-bíííí   I could do x and y but neer show it for You BLEEE"

nice. Then SHUT THE **** UP and don't tell people You could do it.
Since You are not going to release it, why tell the world You could do it?
No point in that. And NO REASON for a forum to exsist.


As You see, this post is like retarded in this form.
Thats becouse soe miss the basic thing.

WHY do people MOD, and search for possible "hacks" ?
3 different reasons.

1. the first-type is the "looner" guy/girl, who discovers a hack, but is doing it for HIS/HER own joy.
Never post on a forum that he/she CAN do something, and does not even care to show it to others.

Obivus, they do NOT need a forum.

2. type is someone who is talented, and reads the post wich supposed to INFORM, and show information, and use it to achieve a goal. Let that be some "hack" -I hate that word..- So when He/She finishes, posts the findings, documentation, and sort of stuff. THEY NEED A FORUM. IF evrything IS well documented, no questions are left open. AND IF some  may have left, experienced people can answer them, not neceserly the ones working on the "project".

3. type is the "retarded".  The one who actualy posess enough knowledge to achieve something, but is otherwise braindead. AND posts on the forum that "Ya I can do x and y!", and state "I will never release it". Oh fine, evryone is envy at them, and I think those people have nothing else in mind when posting the stuff.. That why I call them retarded. They are emotianly nothing more than children. With supreme mind and knowledge. Allso can be called forum spammers, since no way is it contributeing what they do, it just make people feel bad. They should eighter migrate to 1. or 2. group.


Becouse of group 3. there are this many people posting all over the forum:"when is it released".
Thats becouse these people actualy think with logic. The logic is, if it is posted, it should be released. If You do not want to release what You have achieved, then better shut up. And thats it, no people waiting for miracle things to happen, no more pray to releases..

Other reason for "praying" people posting DUMP in the forums, is.. LACK of documentation, and LACK of important posts answering COMMON questions.

AN inportant post revealing what can be done now with an xbox360, and what not, and the reasons for it would stop people asking the same questions.

ALLSO, fast-shot ideas -wich in some cases *may* turn out usefull, but thats RARE- should have a board, and listing why some things just won't work. And not just telling :"ya can't do that asshole" , but telling some UNDERSTANDABLE reson WHY is it not possible.


so as for people makeing posts every single day, group 3. of "minds" and forum adminsitration/user contributes are both responsible for.

[modrobert]

Hmm... "Go to hell and start your own forum"?

[Pitfall6667]

alright people, I've been doing some thinking...hopeful and safety are right...because what are hackers without the glory?
and after all these thoughts, I'll release the instructions to boot your custom kernel tonight
stay tuned!

[Tiros]

The funny parth here is the "why don't U do it Yourself??" thingy.
Like some programming forums.. No one will do the actual coding for You, but WILL POINT TO A START DIRECTION, and if there are any questions left open, THEY HELP TO FIND AN ANSWER,

All the information required to accomplish such a hack is contained on this forum, and the IBM website.
Problem is all the lazy ass whiners who arent even trying. Yet they have all the time in the world to make up large rants and theories about why they cant have what they want.

So whats your question?

ALLSO, fast-shot ideas -wich in some cases *may* turn out usefull, but thats RARE- should have a board, and listing why some things just won't work. And not just telling :"ya can't do that asshole" , but telling some UNDERSTANDABLE reson WHY is it not possible.

This is a hacking board. Dont post hair brained ideas here or expect a flame.
Dont like that? Tough titty. Head on over to x-s with that sorta $#!t.

[SeventhSon]

The inflated sense of entitlement possessed by certain sections of the community is the single most annoying thing about the 'scene'.

The people who whine about unreleased hacks are *invariably* those who have contributed nothing to those hacks, or any hacks. I'd challenge anyone to find a single counter-example to that observation. I'm completely confused as to why those same people claim some form of inalienable right to the works of others? We're not talking about  life, liberty and the security of person here, we're talking about projects *other* people have spent hundreds of hours working on.

If you can't think of at least one good reason (there are several) not to release something like this, besides those reasons persistantly dreamt up by people with no knowlegde of the situation (e.g. "the author(s) are behaving greedy children"), then you're a moron and probably wouldn't be able to use a hacked kernel anyway.

Even if you're right, and they're not releasing the hack solely to piss you off or to be the only ones who can run a hacked kernel while rubbing it in your face, then your entitlement to that hack is still the same! f****** zero! Your pathetic compaints/begging requests won't get you the hack and simply annoy the rest of us as useless board clutter.

We all have 2 options when faced with an unreleased hack. A) Figure it out ourselves or B) Sit tight, STFU and wait for someone to release something. That's why people tell you to "Go to hell, and code it yourself"

[safety]

I think I did not post my point well enough. -lack of english, lolz--.

"Your pathetic compaints/begging requests won't get you the hack and simply annoy the rest of us as useless board clutter."

that kind of stuf would NOT happen if *some* people would not post about things they won't relase.


My point: if you don't wan't to relesae it, it is Your choosen option.
But than don't post about that it is possible, couse it will ONLY start :
"pathetic compaints/begging requests", wich will only achieve:
"simply annoy the rest of us as useless board clutter".


I hope this cleares it up.
Some people don't mind to release what they can do, and make a proper documentation.
Wich is a nice thing.

Some people just spread words of "hacked kernels" and start waves of "pathetic compaints/begging requests", would be more than better if they would enjoy what they have managed to achieve, and just don't post it.  Than it is pointless to post that he/she IS able to do it.
What else point it would have than spreading greed?
nothing at all.

Everyone has the right to keep their intellectual products, but then it would allso be wise not to spread greed.
Never said that anyone who just sits here doing "pathetic compaints/begging requests" has a right to get what others have made with insane work.


TRY to understand what I wrote. IF You do You will realise that I do have a good point there.
I did makethis post becouse its annoying to see those "pathetic compaints/begging requests",
and usualy problems are solved by finding whats couseing the problem.
I did only show why do people keep doing those "pathetic compaints/begging requests", it is not that hard to put an end to it.

and telling to start my own forum.. LOLz.. no, I have no interest in that.
And would not solve the problem eighter. still, people would do "pathetic compaints/begging requests" on THIS forum.

OK?

[Tiros]

that kind of stuf would NOT happen if *some* people would not post about things they won't relase.

OK?

Well I for one can boot into any kind of hacked up kernel I want to.
Not only that, but I can load KK from a hdd, with a special interface I built.
And your not getting any of it 

OK?

[cory1492]

that kind of stuf would NOT happen if *some* people would not post about things they won't relase.

If that were the case, I think the current iXtreme or other custom drive firmwares may well not exist, meaning one more thing that would need to be done by anyone wanting to experiment on their 360.

Some people just spread words of "hacked kernels" and start waves of "pathetic compaints/begging requests", would be more than better if they would enjoy what they have managed to achieve, and just don't post it.  Than it is pointless to post that he/she IS able to do it.
What else point it would have than spreading greed?
nothing at all.

You do realize your arguments towards this end fall on deaf ears when it comes to hackers, right? Knowing it is at least possible and has been done by someone already can be motivation in itself - as much as I do not enjoy repeating work to find steps that are already known by few, it can be very rewarding to find and get through those steps without some set in stone step-by-step guide (you, in fact, learn more that way.) I have seen that many things stagnate once any public release has been made (sometimes delaying or putting off permanently even better solutions to the same problems) and often the only result of such releases seems to be profiteering by non-hackers (not to mention a parade of clones of clones.)

I can come up with loads of reasons to not release such things, the primary one being that MS is completely willing to change their hardware/software at any moment to close any publicized security holes.

[SeventhSon]

that kind of stuf would NOT happen if *some* people would not post about things they won't relase.

True but irrelavant. We don't want whining, but we do want info about what people have achieved.

People read about what someone else has done. They don't have the patience/time/ability/whatever to figure it out themselves. Instead of just dealing with that fact, they get frustrated and vent on the board by inventing some reason that the author is wrong for not releasing it. As I've already explained, these people have no entitlement to the hack whatsoever, so their reasons are *always* bull$#!t. The real solution is to attack people for their *useless* venting, not to attack hackers for posting *useful* info about what they've achieved.

TRY to understand what I wrote. IF You do You will realise that I do have a good point there.
I did makethis post becouse its annoying to see those "pathetic compaints/begging requests",
and usualy problems are solved by finding whats couseing the problem.
I did only show why do people keep doing those "pathetic compaints/begging requests", it is not that hard to put an end to it.

From where I stand you *are* complaining about hackers posting about hacks and not releasing them.

There's nothing wrong with someone posting about an unreleased hack, no matter the reason. See Cory1492's post above. Any information is better than no information and this is an information centered board, not a warez distribution board. Nobody has any right to expect anything more than the author(s) wish to provide. So everyone can quit bitching.

[safety]

I state clearly, becouse You don't seem to understand, that there is NO problem with unreleased stuff.
I NEVER said any bad about people NOT releaseing their stuff.
Thats a thing they have to decide.


And, this "any info is better than none" just starts the prey posts.
so in any way, if they don't know about it, they won't prey for it.

Other than that, most of them are only looking to apply the thing, and not intrested in how it works.
So unreleased stuff technical info -if the author wills- can be sent to those who can actually use the information.


but it does not mather. Some of You have decided that I wan't to force people to release what they know, wich is not true. But for some reason You guys just stick to that.

GET Your head out of the sand, I'm not saying anybody has to release anything.


BUT posting things like "I can do this and that, but will never release how" just start prey posts, and spam. If anyone prefers spam and preys, just continue, but don't bitch if You get owerwhelmed by those people. If You bake a bread out of $#!t, don't complain, EAT it.

DO NOT give people things to prey for, and they won't prey. it ain't that hard to understand.
Or You need a source code in c++ to understand it?

[SeventhSon]

I state clearly, becouse You don't seem to understand, that there is NO problem with unreleased stuff.
I NEVER said any bad about people NOT releaseing their stuff.

I didn't say you had a problem with people not releasing stuff. I said you were compaining about people not releasing stuff *AND* posting that they'd succeeded in the hack. Which you clearly are. You are repeatedly misrepresenting my argument (whether intentionally or because English isn't your first language, I don't know).

GET Your head out of the sand, I'm not saying anybody has to release anything.

Again, nobody is accusing you of that. Your English is okay, but I think it's become a stumbling block in the debate.

The rest of your post is a repeat of your previous arguments almost verbatim. See above posts for responses to those.

Or You need a source code in c++ to understand it?

cout << "no, read my post more carefully next time";

[Tiros]

I NEVER said any bad about people NOT releaseing their stuff.

Hmm I suppose I misunderstood your post:

3. type is the "retarded".  The one who actualy posess enough knowledge to achieve something, but is otherwise braindead. AND
posts on the forum that "Ya I can do x and y!", and state "I will never release it". Oh fine, evryone is envy at them,
.....
Than it is pointless to post that he/she IS able to do it.
What else point it would have than spreading greed?
nothing at all.

And, this "any info is better than none" just starts the prey posts.
..
GET Your head out of the sand, I'm not saying anybody has to release anything.
BUT posting things like "I can do this and that, but will never release how" just start prey posts, and spam. If anyone prefers spam and preys, just continue, but don't bitch if You get owerwhelmed by those people. If You bake a bread out of $#!t, don't complain, EAT it.
..
TRY to understand what I wrote. IF You do You will realise that I do have a good point there.
..
I did makethis post becouse its annoying to see those "pathetic compaints/begging requests",

We all get your point, if there is no news of anything there is nothing to pray for. Its not difficult to understand.
Now you need to "TRY to understand" what you have been told. ANY news of something that works is more usefull than your crybaby bs. The dvd hack was pointed out to you as a perfect example. Yet you continue to insist that not posting such results is the answer. It seems like your the one with your head in the sand.

Clearly you just dont like the fact that since YOUR not worthy of participating, you would rather not even know of the hack.
News of a working hack annoys you? Tough titty! Too bad for you! If your "annoyed", go someplace else, or simply dont read the forum! Really we wont miss you a bit. Nobody needs your advice on how to prevent spammer pray boys. As 7th suggested, it is more prudent to attack the whiners like you, instead of those who actually contribute something, even if its only news of something they did.

I wont respond to this thread again no matter what your reply as if you are too thick headed to get it by now, you never will.

[safety]

some complain about the useless spam posts.
actualy those who make the basic start locations for them.

and is not right.

but anyhow it ain't my problem.


"From where I stand you *are* complaining about hackers posting about hacks and not releasing them."
THX. BUT I'M NOT.

I complain about people GIVING reasons to to spam posts.
and don't argue on that.

I'm not going to try to explain it to You.
If You can't figure out what I think of, than You might not need to understand it.

BOTH the spammers and the posters giving birth of spam posts have allmost identical responsability over the issue.

If You have to cooemnt this, it just shows that You are not capable of understanding it.
In this case any further talking about the subject is pointless.
I could post in non-english, would have the same effect.

if you plan to reply some BS to this, might as well delete all I wrote, ban me from user list, and just forget all that has been written, and BE HAPPY WITH SPAMMERS.

oh, and rename the forum to XS EXTRA SPAM.

or just make the whole forum hidden, and let only the top 5 post n read.
would allso solve the problem.

bah..

You do have a sense to make me angry.
wish You lived somewhere near.

I would show you what is a flame war.

bah..

back to te other post here.
Telling people that there is a way to do something by .................. and so on is harmless.
Telling that its easy to adopt the stuff, bt there is no release on it have no other sense than starting spaming. Is not logical, nor helpful.

I DO understand that its important to show if someone finds any new thing,
but if You want to get rid of spam, do it in a form that prevents spam.
Thats the responsivity any post maker has when showing an achievement.

just to notfy, this is the last post I make here, since from informative fourm board the place is getting to look like a junkyard. And those who have responsability on this, and those who could do anything about it are actually just trying to think of anything, anythig to wash theyr hands.


///// just to give an other view, wach the news on tv. Some informations are held back a bit to stop hysteria to spread. and is the logical thing to do. They are telling the information, but in a fashion that prevents panic. in our case information posted has to be done in a fashion to prevent cry posts. Thats the responsability of the one spreading the news.

[safety]

Since it is not possible for me to delete my account if any admins read this, delete my account.