Microsoft and hackers

[zerodefect]

im not saying your mistaken, im just telling you that the posts that were removed, were because they were scared of getting busted. legally, i have no clue because i am not a lawyer. i have been comparing the current threads to the the old ones i have saved to find out what posts are missing or modified and if i find any information that could be of benefit to recreating this hack, i will post it as soon as i get around too it. as for incriminating evidence is concerned there is alot of that

[TheSpecialist]

im not saying your mistaken, im just telling you that the posts that were removed, were because they were scared of getting busted. legally, i have no clue because i am not a lawyer. i have been comparing the current threads to the the old ones i have saved to find out what posts are missing or modified and if i find any information that could be of benefit to recreating this hack, i will post it as soon as i get around too it. as for incriminating evidence is concerned there is alot of that

Well, as soon as you've done sorting out all posts, found all the TOP secret stuff that's been deleted, the hacking tutorials, the inside tips, the "incriminating evidence" (for what actually?) etc and want to post it, PLEASE DO IT IN YOUR OWN THREAD and don't keep messing up other threads.
2 PSM2XBOX: some users dumped FW's and posted links to them. Problem was that these posts got quoted a few times and in these quotes were again the links to these FW's. 2 guys mailed me if i wanted to delete a few posts of me, where i'd quoted them. But as I understand now, there's nothing illegal in posting a FW ? I was not sure about that, but of course, I deleted the posts upon their requests.
Furthermore I deleted some 'outdated' posts, there were various post were I posted 'incorrect' info, based on assumptions that were proven wrong later on (for example, I always believed that xbox 1 would read responses from the placeholders, it seemed SO unlogical that they were just being read from a table ... ).

Anyway, at some point somebody noted that the thread contained a few less posts than before and people got all kind of 'conspiracy theories' about these posts containing top secret 'missing parts' of the info and god knows what more ... Well, I guess we'll all read that soon in Zerodefect's thread ...

The fact that a 40+ pages long thread can actually BENEFIT from 'outdated' posts being deleted seems a concept very difficult to grasp for some people and they rather create some 'conspiracy theories' to believe in. Like 2nd xbox 360's in reflection of TV's, microsoft paying hackers to shut up, FW hacks being sold to mod companies, FW hacks that are completly fake and what more ... And now this idiot comes up with another conspiracy theory and starts messing up several threads with it (they got deleted fortunately), so, yes, that does irritate me ..

Anyway can we now please keep this thread on topic again ?

[PS2MXBOX]

Spec: I'm 90% positive that it is illegal to post a M$ 360 firmware, and that was my concern for the wiki, however I will check the books when I get home.  What I'm going to check into is the legality of modified firmware for comercial PC drives and see what I can turn up as well as cases from the past few months.

As far as getting back on topic, I truly feel M$ is simply waiting to see a finialized hack, break it down, and add security features to accomidate it.  I also believe that if there is a next gen-M$ console, that M$ will be paying for info to add security patches (similar to what they did with Bunny and the xbox1) to prevent future hacks...live and learn from your mistakes I suppose.

[BlueCop]

what if it is for the purpose of interoperability? would that make a difference. like for example the Toshiba-Samsung drive does not work with windows with version ms25 that comes with the drive in the 360 while the version ms07 which is posted works with windows and other operating systems.

[PS2MXBOX]

what if it is for the purpose of interoperability? would that make a difference. like for example the Toshiba-Samsung drive does not work with windows with version ms25 that comes with the drive in the 360 while the version ms07 which is posted works with windows and other operating systems.

Ah I like where your heads at BlueCop, I'll see what I can find definitively before I post any more speculation.  That could possibly be a valid arguement...unless for instance that those spare drives where never supposed to be released to the public but were salvaged from M$ equipment "illegally".  I'll also try and get in touch with some colleagues as well.

[BlueCop]

00000cf0: 0e0e 080b 0e0e 0800 0300 436f 7079 7269  ..........Copyri
00000d00: 6768 7420 2863 2920 4d69 6372 6f73 6f66  ght (c) Microsof
00000d10: 7420 436f 7270 6f72 6174 696f 6e2e 2041  t Corporation. A
00000d20: 6c6c 2072 6967 6874 7320 7265 7365 7276  ll rights reserv
00000d30: 6564 2e82 04d4 2ebe 341d 57dc d848 fc55  ed......4.W..H.U

If you are looking for the FLASH ROM contents of the Xbox, you won't be able to download them even though I've extracted them. I got a call [recording edited to protect sensitive info] from Microsoft within 12 hours of posting this page regarding the binaries...I fear...

However, for those of you who want to extract the FLASH ROM contents of the Xbox for your own purposes, see the case of "Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. v. Connectix Corp." You are actually allowed by law to reverse engineer copyrighted code so long as it is necessary to discover the ideas or functional elements behind the code (still, I'm not allowed to post copyrighted code for free distribution). Hey, microsoft...what are the ideas and functional elements behind your BIOS ROM? ... hmm...patent search turns up nil on the Xbox...guess we'll just have to reverse engineer it. (FTR, Nintendo has patented what looks to be the entirety of the N64 console, thus perchance making reverse engineering an N64 illegal--not yet court tested.)

i just thought that excert from bunnie site might be relevant.
bunnies site: http://www.xenatera.com/bunnie/proj/anatak/xboxmod.html#copyrights
Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. v. Connectix Corp.: http://www.gcwf.com/articles/ipu/ipu_sum00_9.html

edit: it seems the sony v. connectix link is no longer valid.

here is an internet archive link. http://web.archive.org/web/20021204022633/http://www.gcwf.com/articles/ipu/ipu_sum00_9.html

[MacDennis]

im not saying your mistaken, im just telling you that the posts that were removed, were because they were scared of getting busted. legally, i have no clue because i am not a lawyer. i have been comparing the current threads to the the old ones i have saved to find out what posts are missing or modified and if i find any information that could be of benefit to recreating this hack, i will post it as soon as i get around too it. as for incriminating evidence is concerned there is alot of that

You just have to bring up this topic over and over again do you? Why waste your time on a topic like this? You could put your time and energy into actual hacking, this is still xboxHACKER right?

Fact 1: you're not interested in any hacking at all. If you were interested then you would have read the the current (locked) original firmware hacking thread. What is mentioned in the last post made in the thread?  Do something more useful with your time.

Fact 2: other people have recreated the xbox1 firmware hack on their own without these 'mysterious' posts.

Fact 3: other people have recreated the x360 firmware hack on their own without these 'mysterious' posts.

Fact 4: other people are currently working behind the scenes on their own personal firmware hack without asking for help on these forums.

Everyone has a good right to modifiy/delete their own posts as they please. You won't make any friends on this board if you post old deleted/modified posts again. To be clear, I don't give a damn if you do or don't. But, don't expect any help whatsoever in your hacking endeavours.

Back on topic (zerodefect has a tendency to f*** up every thread at the moment), yes the wiki contains downloads to the firmware files. First of all, they are not hosted on this server. Second, they are scrambled. If you download and hexedit/ open the files there's no copyright message to be found. It useless for the average hacker without the proper tools. It also doesn't contain any code or code which can be converted to assembly language. I'm not a lawyer but how can a file like this be copyrighted? Just wondering ..

[PS2MXBOX]

BlueCop: I remember that case vividly as I am a Mac user. Our cases is a bit different in that, MS has copyrighten the OS and also XBH is not making a xbox360 emulator or competitor so it is not protected under Fair Use; not to mention that it only alows pirated games to play.

yes the wiki contains downloads to the firmware files. First of all, they are not hosted on this server. Second, they are scrambled. If you download and hexedit/ open the files there's no copyright message to be found. It useless for the average hacker without the proper tools. It also doesn't contain any code or code which can be converted to assembly language. I'm not a lawyer but how can a file like this be copyrighted? Just wondering ..

If the firmwares aren't hosted on this server than don't worry, I guess.  But I was thinking about this last night.  There does not have to be copyright messages visible in the hex. There is implied copyright in that you had to take apart the drive to dump the firmware. You circumvented the dvd drive's protection (opening up the device).  But then another thought came to mind...the DMCA is violated if you circumvent any securtity features in place to prevent backing up a firmware, however if the debug and similar dump commands are still accessable without breaking any protection scemes, then I suppose its game on.
Now take this last statement as a grain of salt, as I haven't had time to check the books (yes, you should use books and not the internet for everything as each federal case is different)

[MacDennis]

If the firmwares aren't hosted on this server than don't worry, I guess. 

They are definately hosted on another server. To be clear, I didn't upload and/or host them and I also didn't create the Wiki.

But I was thinking about this last night.  There does not have to be copyright messages visible in the hex. There is implied copyright in that you had to take apart the drive to dump the firmware. You circumvented the dvd drive's protection (opening up the device). 

A metallic case without any seals counts as a dvd drive protection?

But then another thought came to mind...the DMCA is violated if you circumvent any securtity features in place to prevent backing up a firmware, however if the debug and similar dump commands are still accessable without breaking any protection scemes, then I suppose its game on.

Yes, all debug commands are still in place. You don't need to take the drive apart to dump the firmware. But if you dump the firmware by using the debug commands then you will get the unscrambled firmware. The firmware actually has protection against dumping the flash and RAM but it has a 'bug', call it a wide open backdoor if you wish. Nothing needs to be 'circumvented' to read the firmware. The firmware does not contain any copyright messages by the way.

[Dzgx216]

I thought the article about the "Blue hat" conference was definately intersting.  Like others, I believe that this can be beneficial to both groups.  It will give the companies the insight needed to build better protections and it will give the hackers better protections to break.    As a fledgeling hacker myself, I think it would be a great honor to one day be invited to something like that.  It's almost like.. a company admitting that they're afraid of you!  I'd be interested to see if it happens again. 

I also think it would be funny to see a MS engineer turning purple in the audience when you exploit their code.

[PS2MXBOX]

But I was thinking about this last night.  There does not have to be copyright messages visible in the hex. There is implied copyright in that you had to take apart the drive to dump the firmware. You circumvented the dvd drive's protection (opening up the device). 

A metallic case without any seals counts as a dvd drive protection?

 No, the big white case sealing the entire unit.  The firmware IS protected under the "implied copyright" clause.  The firmware does NOT have to have a specific warning of copyright infringement.  Think of it this way...MS can NOT crack open a new Intel powered Mac and copy its EFI technology and incorporate it into the new Vista.  The EFI is protected by Apple even though doesn't have a specific warning written into the code itself; it's implied.


[/quote]Yes, all debug commands are still in place. You don't need to take the drive apart to dump the firmware. But if you dump the firmware by using the debug commands then you will get the unscrambled firmware. The firmware actually has protection against dumping the flash and RAM but it has a 'bug', call it a wide open backdoor if you wish. Nothing needs to be 'circumvented' to read the firmware. The firmware does not contain any copyright messages by the way.
[/quote]

[zerodefect]

well, im not really here to make friends, nore am i in any need of help. i came to this forum for all the same reasons as most people had. there was news that had begun circulating around the internet stating that a group of hackers had sucessfully booted an xbox360 game via hole found in the firmware contained within the xbox360 dvd drive.

when i first visited these forums, the hack was still in development and i watched the development as closely as possible. it appeared as if information that was being regularly updated, began to slowly stop just prior to the annoucment. at the time this was all taking place there was great debate and controversy surrounding the whole missing posts deal. at first i beleived that there was important information that had been removed and the team continued research in private.

i had read the current firmware thread including the last post. the google cached version he posted is still different from mine. there are still missing posts. these missing posts contain links to hacked firmwares (which could have been very helpful) as well as reveresed code and other posts that seemed dangerous to keep around. some of these links were quoted on several other posts and those posts were also removed or edited. removing a great deal of information (if it was useful information, i dont know). if you want to prove me wrong then how about you download his original thread and try to show me page 11 for instance. thats just one of the missing pages in his posts as well.

the forum had been pruned to help remove some posts that contained all the information necessary for microsoft to put each of you in prision for the rest of your lives. circumventing copy protection for piracy purposes on such a new, expensive, microsoft technology such as the xbox360 is very serious. fortunatly for you, these posts no longer exist in the public domain (even google has already updated there caches).

i am not here to hack, as i have already mentioned i do not have the required hardware to participate, but that doesnt mean we are not participating. the only thing i want from these forums is accurate information that i can use in my own personal projects. im sure this hack will be released soon enough that it does not warrant my time to recreate from scratch. i do require this firmware to continue work, but i am not one to re do $#!t that has already been done.

just remember.. if people didnt share info with you, then you would not have succeeded either. thats why places like this exist, to help further the scene. if that was not your motive then you should not have announced it all. personally if i were any of you, i would be worried. hacking is illegal, so why the hell would you do it in public. $#!t thats like smoking crack in the food court of your local mall. your going to get busted.

think about it, once someone releases that hack, regardless if it was this team or not, this is the first place that will be shutdown and you all will be arrested by the feds and imprisioned. microsoft will make a strong statement that they will prosecute anyone else who distrobutes or sells this firmware. that would be the only method they have at combating this. chances are they are just reading this forum everyday just saving away information that can be used against you all. this forum doesnt even require registration to read the posts.

doesnt that allow them to legally use anything they find here?

what ever happened to proxys and newsgroups? n00bs.

[Arakon]

I'm really, really sick of your repeated bitching, whining and begging. you keep talking and spamming into every FW related thread, and what it boils down to is nothing but the whining of an annoying kid that wants the firmware.

[zerodefect]

what the f*** are you talking about? i have never requested the firmware nor am i bitching. you want to see the posts i have?? what was your email again? piracy@microsoft.com?

[chaos]

i do not see why everyone is so scared to release this firmware. grab a good anon proxy, upload anonymously to some usual places

how would you interpret this yourself?

you are so lame i could encode mp3s with you...

[MacDennis]

what the f*** are you talking about? i have never requested the firmware nor am i bitching. you want to see the posts i have?? what was your email again? piracy@microsoft.com?

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=506359&view=findpost&p=3363675

zero has a serious defect ..

'nuff said ..

[elitedev]

haha keep laughing guys. you wont be when this hack goes live.

[BlueCop]

who was laughing? what exactly is going to happen to us?
who are you trying to scare?

[TheSpecialist]

who was laughing? what exactly is going to happen to us?
who are you trying to scare?

They're gonna put us in jail for the rest of our life, Bluecop. Zerodefects has found out that we posted the hacked firmwares and deleted them:

these missing posts contain links to hacked firmwares (which could have been very helpful)

Damn, I kinda hoped that nobody saw that ... Lol.

what ever happened to proxys and newsgroups? n00bs.

There are thousands of way to upload a file anonymously to the internet. Believe me, if we wanted you to have a hacked FW, you'd have it by now ...

And please, stop using the argument that you need the FW to continue your 'personal projects'. Man, you couldn't even code a 'hello world' in VB, lol

[Arakon]

this guy is on some kind of obsessed trip. he probably is the kind of person that assumes there's someone watching him around every corner. "omg, you got the firmware and are not giving it to me! you deleted the links! I saw them! right next to the links that prove that JFK was killed by aliens! really!!"..some people need help. and I am not talking about hacking help.