c4e announces 'XGD3 defeated', fits on to a standard dual layer disc

[xbox360sexual]

2011-09-25 02:52AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> Successful testing of LT 2.0 with new LT-MAX feature for DVD R DL. XGD3 ixtreme isos playing fine from DVD R DL disc and/or install to HD
[2011-09-25 03:01AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> normal blanks, normal burner!
[2011-09-25 03:03AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> XGD3=defeated!
[2011-09-25 03:59AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> LT Max=Maximum capacity!

So seeing as overburning is out of the question and we can't modify/remove data from the disc, what do you tech guys think he's done here?

[neonpolaris]

I haven't read anything that indicates that XGD3 holds more than the 8.5GB that the discs we use now can hold.  Why would there be need for overburning/removing data?

[johnsmith]

My quick guess? - Fake toc - or duplicated sectors. - Ahoy for that!
I used to play with such stuff back in the XP days where I could hold up to 8gb in a single 700mb cd ^^ aka, truckloads of duplicated files and only 100mb where unique files. So when one try to copy the contents from the cd to hdd, it would require 8gb of free space.. but when dumping the iso from the disc, it would be mere 735mb. But let's see

[phonsey]

[2011-09-25 02:52AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> Successful testing of LT 2.0 with new LT-MAX feature for DVD R DL. XGD3 ixtreme isos playing fine from DVD R DL disc and/or install to HD
[2011-09-25 02:57AM UTC] #c4e <EnigmaFX> does this Mean we can use or regular dual layer media / burners and layer break 1913760? Or has that changed ?
[2011-09-25 02:58AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> regular DL media, yes!
[2011-09-25 02:59AM UTC] #c4e <supakilla> c4eva is the layer break still the same
[2011-09-25 03:00AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> more details soon!
[2011-09-25 03:01AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> normal blanks, normal burner!
[2011-09-25 03:03AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> XGD3=defeated!
[2011-09-25 03:59AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> LT Max=Maximum capacity!

[xbox360sexual]

phonsey...? c4e is being vague as usual, that's why I started this thread  Couldn't really care less for the release of the firmware but I'm interested in how he's 'defeated' xgd3 anyway.

[Arakon]

Noone ever claimed that XGD3 is over the usual duallayer size. The "old" format actually reserved almost 1GB entirely for security data etc, and that is where the "extra" space comes from.

[neonpolaris]

Now that I'm looking for it, there are many places mentioning that XGD3 discs are 182MB larger than a recordable DL disc.  I should assume this is pure speculation/rumor?

[MrPete1985]

DVD+R DL holds 8,547,991,552 bytes / 1024 = 8,347,648 KB / 1024 = 8,152 MB / 1024 = 7.96 GB

anyone got a XGD3 they can put in a 0800 drive and see how big it is?

hopefully someone like Geremia can figure out how it works after it drops, if c4e is removing update partition or some other kind of data then I think the ODDE option will be better

[HOMiE7]

if you'll put xgd3 disc in kreon - XBC will say that disc is 8.07GB. but if you'll try to dump it - iso will be full of garbage (some random data). looks like old kreon and old XBC got fooled by xgd3 disc...

if you'll put xgd3 disc in normal pc dvd drive - any software will say that disc is 49MB (fake toc as before).

I already saw isos for ODDE - they are over 8GB. but who knows? maybe johnsmith was right... maybe it's because some tricks to prevent old style dumping...

...just thoughts...

[utar]

Hope this isn't against the rules but this from the nfo accompanying the backup of a XGD3 release is interesting:

XGD3 BACKUPS OVERVIEW

       To end the confusion once and for all, *yes*, original XGD3 discs
       have a higher linear/track density and therefore a higher physical
       capacity than XGD2 and regular DVD+R DL media. As a result, XGD3 ISO
       backups are larger as well.

       For XGD3 backup support, c4eva has introduced in LT+ v2.0 the LT-MAX
       feature, which allows for XGD3 backups to use the maximum possible
       layerbreak for regular DVD+R DL media, and therefore all of the
       available space (8,547,991,552 bytes) of a regular DVD+R DL disc.

       Since there is still not enough space on a regular DVD+R DL disc to
       hold the entire XGD3 game partition, not to mention the Layer 1
       Video partition, this is not at all recommended as being "safe" for
       Xbox LIVE.

       XGD3 backups will still boot and play fine on LT+ v2.0 as long as the
       last approximately 1.7% of the game partition does not contain any of
       the actual game assets, which it usually won't because the end of the
       game partition is near the inner edge of the disc, and developers
       will try to keep their game data near the outer edge (middle of the
       game partition) to maximize read performance.

       Another necessary condition to booting and playing XGD3 backups on
       regular DVD+R DL media is that the kernel or game code itself must
       not perform any CIV (Content Integrity Verification) checks on any
       part of this last approximately 1.7% of the game partition (or at
       least it must not take any action after CIV failures). Even if there
       are no actual game assets in this area, there is still pseudo-random
       padding data which can be checked through CIV, and such checks can
       even be added later to the game code through title updates, or to the
       kernel through system updates.

       Just like XGD2, XGD3 backups still require the correct dashboard
       version-specific AP2.5 replay data. As they've done previously, MS
       has the ability to change the DAE.bin by way of a system update,
       meaning you may need to re-patch/re-burn at some point. The abgx360
       application and database will be updated accordingly to support XGD3.

So to sum up MS can easily check is a disc is an original by checking the last 1.7% of the game disc.  I would guess they will start very shortly and easily be able to stop these from booting.

Arakon - please delete this post if this shouldn't be on the forum.



Utar

[ddxcb]

Hope this isn't against the rules but this from the nfo accompanying the backup of a XGD3 release is interesting:

/snip

So to sum up MS can easily check is a disc is an original by checking the last 1.7% of the game disc.  I would guess they will start very shortly and easily be able to stop these from booting.

Arakon - please delete this post if this shouldn't be on the forum.



Utar

but the game partition is 8.07GB?

idk the new format is too confusing.

[MrPete1985]

[/quote]
but the game partition is 8.07GB?

idk the new format is too confusing.
[/quote]I think that is the total disc size not just the game partition, xk3y is looking better and better