A few thoughts on private/public fiasco

[Blackaddr]

Lot of yelling doing on about people making things public that were private.  LiteOn dumping method is the latest example.

As recently revealed, there was a plan to offer the exploit as a modchip that could be sold to users.  Users get to exploit their drives, coders and hackers that developed the exploit get paid from the sale of the modchip, and the modchip keeps the exploit private, so MS doesn't learn about the security hole and patch it.

Everybody wins, right?

Well, keep in mind there are several motives for the people working on these things.  Just a few include interest in the money, interest in the piracy (copied games), and finally the challenge and perhaps accolades.

Those who were interested in the money are really pissed off (no chinese mod chip needed now).
Those who were interested in the piracy are really pissed off (this exploit won't last long, next time there may be no security holes found).
Those who were interested only in the challenge, perhaps the accolades, and dont' care about money or piracy are probably happy.

IMHO, the people who are getting bashed for releasing information couldn't care less about who isn't getting paid now, and probably couldn't care less if MS patches the current exploit.  They are looking forward to the next challenge, not scared of it.

What are your thoughts?

[Icekiller]

Those who were interested only in the challenge, perhaps the accolades, and dont' care about money or piracy are probably happy.

well.. really?  if you work on something for a long time.. and then somebody else releases it... would you be happy with it? even if you weren't going to sell or pirate ?

Lets say you make a nice program.. you want it for you and friends cause well. you made it.. and you want it tested and released under your terms... is that so crazy?


i can understand that people want stuff for free.. the dvd stuff really "spoiled" everyone..


But it all REALLY depends on 1 thing how much the chip would cost..
if it was 5-10 euro it would have been ok.. sounds crazy i know but you need to out weight it..

[Blackaddr]

Those who were interested only in the challenge, perhaps the accolades, and dont' care about money or piracy are probably happy.

well.. really?  if you work on something for a long time.. and then somebody else releases it... would you be happy with it? even if you weren't going to sell or pirate ?

Perhaps I should have replaced accolades with peer respect to make myself clear.  I am not talking about public fame.   And I'm referring to why the person leaking the info would be happy, not the other members of the group, clearly they are pissed.  I'm just discussing why the 'leaker' might do it.

So Really?  Well, yes.  If you are ONLY interested in the challenge, and the respect of your talents by the group, then you should not be angry that somebody else who also contributed released some information.  You still got your challenge, and your talents are still respected by the group members, so you have lost nothing.

[Icekiller]

the problem right now is..

there is more then 1 person per hack.
if 3 persons make 1 hack possible, then 1 person can't just release it..

the leaker will probably do it cause its good for people who do it at home..
But lets face it most people get it done .. by a "shop".. which means they'll pay 30-35euro anyway...  so they'll have to deal with a decrease of money thats around 10euro.. so they'll only earn 20euro after they earn back their equipment..


its all relative.. i'm not mad about it being released.. so i have actually no real purpose to discuss it.. i just think thats how i would feel..

[Blackaddr]

You raise a good point about people who pay a shop to mod their drive. 

I'd be curious to know how many people pay shops, cause I have no idea what the ratio of commercial mods to DIY is.  Personally, I don't know anybody who would pay a shop.  Any of my friends who can't do it as a hobby, I'd do it for them for free.  Their cost would probably be the beer we would drink.

- Blackaddr

[sandungas]

There is a big difference if you are interested in hacking for hobby... or for money
An special case is when you do the things looking for fame

Probably the 3 are respectables (i prefer not to give my oppinion if are respectables or not)... but there is only one of them that really helps other users and boost the scene

[q36]

Money and reversing should never mix. If you reverse for the purpose of making money you're not a reverser, you're a pirate.

It's funny when people fight over someone else releasing a hack because in the end you don't own the code and anyone in the world could hack it if they spent the time on it. 

[parasven]

ive recently been in a shop that does these mods (flashing drives) and there were quite a lot of ppl asking for mods (WII and 360). i was astonished how many ppl go to a shop and pay 30-40€ for a simple LW flash but most of em were like 14-15

[Blackaddr]

Money and reversing should never mix. If you reverse for the purpose of making money you're not a reverser, you're a pirate.

It's funny when people fight over someone else releasing a hack because in the end you don't own the code and anyone in the world could hack it if they spent the time on it. 

That isn't quite true.  It requires expert knowledge of hardware, software and security.  Not to mention for certain tasks like dumping firmwares you often need very expensive equipment for decapping chips (this is really where the money goes in.)

People sometimes have a mental image that it's highschool hackers that do this stuff and it usually isn't.  It's often twenty-somethings who have access to university graduate labs.  Otherwise the chinese are the only ones who have the financial resources to do things like decap and probe.

- Blackaddr

[Shaun]

lol who are you kidding ?
There are plenty of people willing to splash some cash to get a result - its just a means to an end.
However, these people usually do it for finacial gain.

xecutor ring any bells ?