Liteon secrets? I'll share something with you

[rolf2]

*

[Le4fy]

is it just me or does anyone else find lifting 2 pins quicker and easier than cutting and rejoining traces?

Swings and roundabouts for me mate done both now !! guess it comes down to confidence !! remove epoxy and lift pins, or cut trace and repair choose your poison ?. I think cutting trace method is safer if your not sure, u got a better chance of repairing if u mess up. Just my opinion though  

[thuanz]

is it just me or does anyone else find lifting 2 pins quicker and easier than cutting and rejoining traces?

fell free find something easer :

whats that meant to mean? I wasn't having a go at the method. It was a genuine question. I don't need an easier method, in fact I'm very grateful the dreaded liteon was actually in the end this easy to dump as it is.

[rossmichael]

Same Method as used for the MS28 early release firmware dump MS will have a fix in no time,
 
but a factory production drive need to be programmed with a unique ID from factory, and thats why there will always be a hole

 

[n00bpwner360]

I don't think that Microsoft can fix this that easily. From what I can tell here it's a hardware problem that the spi chip power lines are connected to the outer pins. Connecting the spi power lines (instead of to the outer pins) to the inner power lines of the MTK chip requires a hardware update which are expensive and take longer than just a new fw revision. I think it will be fixed but not TOMORROW like everyone is QQ'ing about.

[d05register]

Even if MS fixes it, great Iriez and c4eva will save us by decapping the chip...!!! 

In this post http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=697967
retarded Iriez (if he is that one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZUZEvfofB8) says that
"Result(scene): c4e creates foundmy agreement, goes public 8/03/09 and geremia releases decryption routine to combat foundmy agreement within 48 hours (08/05/09)"

Does anyone know where is that info? I have seen all Geremia's posts here http://www.xboxhacker.net/index.php?action=profile;u=118;sa=showPosts
and he has posted nothing from October 27, 2008 to August 08, 2009 

Geremia if you read this thread, could you explain what actually happened?

[n00bpwner360]

Even if MS fixes it, great Iriez and c4eva will save us by decaping the chip...!!! 

You can decap the chip and extract the firmware, but here's the problem, if Microsoft removes the way to dump the chip via the methods we speak about on this thread, and they remove ALL fw/key dumping commands from inside the firmware, there's still nothing we can do.

[MRA]

You´re not getting it are you? There is no way to fix this except using a new version of the MT1319 or a complete new drive!

[n00bpwner360]

Yes, and when Microsoft does that, if all of the software and hardware holes are removed, there will be no way to get the key. So the comment made like 2 posts above that says "we'll be saved by decapping the chip" is wrong because decapping won't do anything if you can't find any weaknesses.

[The M.A.R.T.]

Yes, and when Microsoft does that, if all of the software and hardware holes are removed, there will be no way to get the key. So the comment made like 2 posts above that says "we'll be saved by decapping the chip" is wrong because decapping won't do anything if you can't find any weaknesses.

Because... You're sure there are no other holes in new chips ore new drives? Everything is hackable in the end, it takes resources and time, but everything is. Didn't MS release 4 different brands of DVD roms in these past 4 years with countless revisions? The only thing it did was slowing down the scene, but not stopping it for sure.

[n00bpwner360]

Yes, all of those drives had dumpable flashes though. Maybe you had to mess around or know some secrets, but you could always dump them, or at least, with the liteon get your key out. Suppose Microsoft releases the lite-on 10k drive and it has NO key output. No where. None at all. Even Microsoft can't get the key to dump. There's simply no software feature enabling the drive to dump the key, so it's not a thing of "find out how the trigger the dump" there's no dump to trigger. At THAT point, decapping and dumping the FW does no good, because you can't "find" a secret dump command that doesn't exist or something...

[kainy]

I personally think that MS just doesn't want to gives us an unhackable console...You say there isn't unhackable security... Well I too think that a absolute security is a fiction, but pointles to hack is another thing. Let's say that to hack the new Xbox drive, takes the scene 1.5 years, and than the work on drive ( or anywhere else ) is complex enough, not allowing everyone to be able to do it, and those who can, to ask a great fee for the service?

All that I'm saying is, that MS is doing the same thing but in smaller matter. Every time they're slowing the process down. They're giving us months without hackable consoles. And most of the times the public solution for the new drive is harder to do than the previous. In time it simplifies, but then MS does it again and again, and we call that cat and mouse, and live with it... That is their strategy. And so far it's working great... Sony overdone it, for example. Their console is nearly unhackable, and see how many years it is taking. How they menage to sustain their protection I don't know, but they want it that way. MS intentionally does not fill all the holes. They have enough money to do it before, and after hacking the drive, and showing them what we found...

In the same matter I don't think that banning happend because they finally detected the fw... I'm sure they could do it easly, but this holiday I think we were a pretty insolent with all these early releses, and somebody must of cried about it...

So be happy that we can still crack our consoles


Many thanks, to everyone, for the work on all solutions

[Arakon]

That's BS. Money is made with the games, not the hardware.

[360experts]

Had quite good results from the cut trace method now, flashed just over 20 in the last few days with no hiccups.

Decided to go with a silver based conductive glue from MG chemicals to join the traces back up. Its very high grade and seems to work very well.

I agree the lift pin method is a good method, although if you mess it up it could be harder to undo!

If any one is having problems retreving the FW then contact me through the website for help or if you've botched it up I'll certainly try to fix it for you.

http://www.*.com

[n00bpwner360]

I personally think that MS just doesn't want to gives us an unhackable console...You say there isn't unhackable security... Well I too think that a absolute security is a fiction, but pointles to hack is another thing. Let's say that to hack the new Xbox drive, takes the scene 1.5 years, and than the work on drive ( or anywhere else ) is complex enough, not allowing everyone to be able to do it, and those who can, to ask a great fee for the service?

All that I'm saying is, that MS is doing the same thing but in smaller matter. Every time they're slowing the process down. They're giving us months without hackable consoles. And most of the times the public solution for the new drive is harder to do than the previous. In time it simplifies, but then MS does it again and again, and we call that cat and mouse, and live with it... That is their strategy. And so far it's working great... Sony overdone it, for example. Their console is nearly unhackable, and see how many years it is taking. How they menage to sustain their protection I don't know, but they want it that way. MS intentionally does not fill all the holes. They have enough money to do it before, and after hacking the drive, and showing them what we found...

In the same matter I don't think that banning happend because they finally detected the fw... I'm sure they could do it easly, but this holiday I think we were a pretty insolent with all these early releses, and somebody must of cried about it...

So be happy that we can still crack our consoles


Many thanks, to everyone, for the work on all solutions

Why would Microsoft *want* to play cat and mouse with us? If piracy WHATSOEVER is possible they lose money. Microsoft loses money on all consoles sold, makes it back and profits with the money from games. So piracy = bad. Also, banning someone's console, and forcing them to buy another console to pirate games for = double money loss. And it's not working great. We can pirate games for any console right now. Also, they don't make $#!t harder each time. BenQ's were easier than Hitachis, first off, Hitachis are easily brickable, and the benq at it's hardest you had to solder 1 switch. 79 drives you needed a chip for the longest time. Also, 7k liteon drive to the 8k. The 8k needs no serial whatsoever, I think they're easier. The 7k you have to dig out your RS232 adapter. So I respectfully disagree with most of all you say.

[Geremia]

"Result(scene): c4e creates foundmy agreement, goes public 8/03/09 and geremia releases decryption routine to combat foundmy agreement within 48 hours (08/05/09)"

Did you miss the Freekey joke by maximus and me? http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=689567

About the future fix, consider that MS does not produce drives or firmwares(or fw fixes), it just pay liteon to produce them with MS custom atapi commands.
Liteon does not produce chips, it takes them from Mediatek.

[kainy]

I personally think that MS just doesn't want to gives us an unhackable console...You say there isn't unhackable security... Well I too think that a absolute security is a fiction, but pointles to hack is another thing. Let's say that to hack the new Xbox drive, takes the scene 1.5 years, and than the work on drive ( or anywhere else ) is complex enough, not allowing everyone to be able to do it, and those who can, to ask a great fee for the service?

All that I'm saying is, that MS is doing the same thing but in smaller matter. Every time they're slowing the process down. They're giving us months without hackable consoles. And most of the times the public solution for the new drive is harder to do than the previous. In time it simplifies, but then MS does it again and again, and we call that cat and mouse, and live with it... That is their strategy. And so far it's working great... Sony overdone it, for example. Their console is nearly unhackable, and see how many years it is taking. How they menage to sustain their protection I don't know, but they want it that way. MS intentionally does not fill all the holes. They have enough money to do it before, and after hacking the drive, and showing them what we found...

In the same matter I don't think that banning happend because they finally detected the fw... I'm sure they could do it easly, but this holiday I think we were a pretty insolent with all these early releses, and somebody must of cried about it...

So be happy that we can still crack our consoles


Many thanks, to everyone, for the work on all solutions

Why would Microsoft *want* to play cat and mouse with us? If piracy WHATSOEVER is possible they lose money. Microsoft loses money on all consoles sold, makes it back and profits with the money from games. So piracy = bad. Also, banning someone's console, and forcing them to buy another console to pirate games for = double money loss. And it's not working great. We can pirate games for any console right now. Also, they don't make $#!t harder each time. BenQ's were easier than Hitachis, first off, Hitachis are easily brickable, and the benq at it's hardest you had to solder 1 switch. 79 drives you needed a chip for the longest time. Also, 7k liteon drive to the 8k. The 8k needs no serial whatsoever, I think they're easier. The 7k you have to dig out your RS232 adapter. So I respectfully disagree with most of all you say.

You've missed the concept of my post... Believe me if they wanted for their console to be not-hackable, they were gonna make it that way. It's just more expensive, probably... And stating that all consoles are on loss... If they were on loss, it would be inmpossible to recover all the money and make enough profit from their own games, and the income from all games sold for 360 ( I don't think MS is getting much of the income from all games, which are not published by MS ). Many thinks are just suspitions and cannot be proven, but some of them are more possible than others. I gave you an example with PS3... It's not just the Blu-Ray. If M$ wanted to have a similar hard to break protection, they would of done it. Instead they are obviously choosing to play cat & mouse. They update their security, we crack it, they invest a little amount of money, and in return are holding us back for a some period of time.

For example, banning consoles was the cause for me to buy another not-modded console for playing 2-3 games online. Of course one of them is MW2, and of course it was the main reason for the choice. My modded console is not known to be banned, and I never checked, and maybe never will. The point is that they made me do something I was choosing not to do for sometime now. The checksum is that now I own my 7th and 8th 360s ( not even one of the previous 6 god rrod ). Said in a simple way. Updating there hardware, they made me change, because of the lack of guarantee. In that time they were good enough to suck me 50$ a year for Live ( which I have no problem with, cause I think it is worth the fee ). In the end, I've changed 6 consoles, bought totally 8 and now I'm not only paying for Live but and for the 4-5 games in an year that would be playable at live.

But I carried away

Every patch was more troublesome than the last one. The fact that our guys did batter than expected or gave us a simpler solutions is another think. Do you think that there couldn't be an easier solution for hitachis? I think it's just not worth it to simplify. As you see now, no one cares for the hitachis, they are last in line. Yes because they're a bit troublesome, but may be because there much more work on the Benqs and Lite-ons, so working on them is now much easier. And just to add, I personaly mod hitachis faster than lite-on or benq... May be because I do them only in DOS ( hate jungle, sorry guys, it's great app, but too many variables in the equation ). And that only proves my point... Hackers won't bother simplifing something if there is no rational point. Put in other words, if making the perfect protection for the 360 costs a million, but the losses from hardware not sold because people choosed the PS3 ( for its former glory ), are more than a million, or the gain is to small, or not enough... There are many variables here too. I'll give you one of them: In my country around 90% of the people who buy Xbox 360, choose it over PS3, because it is hackable. May be if all of them were going to do as me, to use one modded and one unmodded console, may be 50% of them will choose the unmodded one to be the PS3. May be it's the rational decision, but when you think that this console is going to be used only for online play, they you might reconsider ( if you have a mind of your own ). But in most cases they would choose the PS3 for the wrong reasons.

I hope you've understanded my point.

Sorry for the long post, and carring away like that in the middle.

[Shaun]

I think M$ do now make money of the hardware. They didnt at the initial launch in late 2005.
I also think that M$ wanting to play cat and mouse is naive.
They spent MILLIONS developing a system which was unhackable, and for the best part they suceeded.
The ability of the basic system is great and is also dynamic, which is why the 1 and only exploit that does exist was patched very quickly and there are several systems in place to disable the older version from working with newer games.
In reality, the only flaw was the dvd medium.  I very much doubt the M$ envisaged the firmware being reversed and piracy being allowed in the way it is now.
You imagine if the first drive available was at the level it is now.  I very much doubt the likes of the original team which defeated the non existent encryption, key obfuscation and protection schemes could be decapping an ic fust for a POC.
Without that thos (which ultimately did lead to mass widespead piracy) no kk exploit would ever be possible.

[danthaman]

 Surely as long as there is a key to exchange it will be hackable. Surely if worst comes to worst some1 will write app/driver to use with a homemade T-piece SATA sniffer

[Arakon]

The key is never sent over SATA.