Update on Hitachi Xtreme firmware!

[SeventhSon]

And what about your [TheSpecialist's] responsibility towards the gaming community which you hold in such high regard? Is it ok for hackers to document hacks such as these but then to wash their hands of it when someone takes that info and puts it to use? Many people out there who design and work for gaming companies would say there is little difference between you and c4e.

The Laws in this area aren't perfect, but they're not all bad. These laws exist to the protect the interests of games and console developers and so they make the distinction between TheSpecialist (and the other members of his team) and C4E. Whatever people who design and work for gaming companies think, the posting of technical information obtained by reverse engineering is LEGAL, the posting of a hacked FW is ILLEGAL. And it's easy to see why.

To say TheSpecialist is no better that C4E is like blaming Einstein for Hiroshima. Absurd.

Let this discussion drop now and only be about the Hitachi firmware. Sheesh!

Why. With the exception of a few posts, it's perfectly civil. This thread had little discussion value when it was posted to stray off-topic from. It was just an announcement.

[Tiros]

Whatever people who design and work for gaming companies think, the posting of technical information obtained by reverse engineering is LEGAL..........

You sure about that? Used to be true... Is that still the case...??

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,6351,00.asp

[SeventhSon]

Whatever people who design and work for gaming companies think, the posting of technical information obtained by reverse engineering is LEGAL..........

You sure about that? Used to be true... Is that still the case...??

Perhaps not in some countries. Even if it isn't the case, I'm sure you'll find many objective authorities on the laws surrounding reverse engineering and freedom of information that would make the case that what TheSpecialist and co. did was defensible. I doubt you'd find many who'd say the same about C4E.

My point is that there is a distinction between the actions of C4E and those of the original FW team. I don't see how this distinction can be denied. The parts of the DMCA surrouinding RE and freedom of information are disputed with credible arguments from experts. There no such controversy surrounding the laws C4E is breaking.

[uberfry]

no worries people, this won't become a second dreamcast...
C4E is not the one to blame
as long as no SS are being released, there's nothing to worry about
the ones you have to blame are the release groups (and i'm sure at least 10 guys on this board have access to 0sec - including the hackers)

btw guys, not to make you any hope or anything, but Team Modfreakz, carranzafp, HellDoc and me are working on the hynix reader - and it won't be released for several reasons (you know who i'm talking about, punks) - stay tuned

[deltop]

To say TheSpecialist is no better that C4E is like blaming Einstein for Hiroshima. Absurd.

Not completely absurd, in fact many people argue (with some credibility) that scientists should ultimately share some of the repsonsibilty when their discoveries are used for less than noble purposes. I don't completely agree with this especially since it depends very much on the circiumstances and what exactly we are talking about. Einstein's research has obviously benefitted mankind in many many ways as well as being responsible for the atom bomb. But in my opinion there are far too many scientists around who are more concerned with the next great discovery than with any moral or ethical responsibility they may have to ensure that their work is used only for the good of mankind. I happen to think that this line of thinking applies very much to the hacker world as well as the scientific one. Too many hackers are simply out here to get one over m$ or to stick two fingers up at the gaming companies and completely disregard the fact that their work can have real world consequences for people.

[MacDennis]

btw guys, not to make you any hope or anything, but Team Modfreakz, carranzafp, HellDoc and me are working on the hynix reader - and it won't be released for several reasons (you know who i'm talking about, punks) - stay tuned

Why should we stay tuned for something which isn't going to be released?

[uberfry]

btw guys, not to make you any hope or anything, but Team Modfreakz, carranzafp, HellDoc and me are working on the hynix reader - and it won't be released for several reasons (you know who i'm talking about, punks) - stay tuned

Why should we stay tuned for something which isn't going to be released?

i meant: "stay tuned for the results" (if we find something ) and "we're not going to release the schematic/layout for the programmer/reader itself"

[Redline99]

I'm not a noob but, I'm also not a hacker. I am a developer and I fall somewhere in the middle grey area.  These threads are unfortunate, as eventhough I don't have the knowledge to personally do anything significant for the scene, I do enjoy reading and learning the innerworkings of the xbox.  I have learned a lot more about security and other hardware/software interactions here than anywhere else.  I would really like to see more of the open technical discussions.  I have a lot of questions about the xbox but, not the experience to answer them myself.

[ragerino]

Nice commodore4eva, youR god! BUT I guess we can better buy the TX Connectivity Kit?? Because without that tool, VERY much people will frustate about getting the drive in ModeB!

And is there any difference between 0047 DH and DJ for example?? And do we have another program than flashsec to do the work?? A program like the samsung flasher voor example, it works like a charm!! And the VIA chipsets will not work I guess with the Hitachi drive?? Windows compatibilty problems!

grtz

you just need to have a sil3112 based sata controller and to get it into modeB you have to do the cross-wire-trick. it's very easy.

[ragerino]

TheSpecialist was 100% open with his work, he posted his progress daily in great detail.  C4E only took that information, completed the hack, and repackaged it.  If TheSpecialist didn't publically release his info, C4E wouldn't exist.  TheSpecialist was completely correct imo in not releasing his hack since its ONLY use is piracy, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

first: if theSpecialist wouldn't have done it, than someone other would have done it.
second: it was not only theSpecalists work on the dvd-hack. there have other been involved. also from other sites like free60 ...

but the point is, that some people are going to make money with this knowledge if its not public like the guys with the DevilMod ( !Devil360) for the TS-Drive.

others will brick their xbox360 not understanding every part of the hack. the easier it is to do the hack the better for the community. lots of people will become interested how this was done. they will be interested how this was done, and they will bring in their ideas.

hope everybody understood what i was trying to say.

i'm not tryint to criticise theSpecialist, but he has to accept that other people have other opinions.

[ragerino]

TheSpecialist was 100% open with his work, he posted his progress daily in great detail.  C4E only took that information, completed the hack, and repackaged it.  If TheSpecialist didn't publically release his info, C4E wouldn't exist.  TheSpecialist was completely correct imo in not releasing his hack since its ONLY use is piracy, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

lol, so I buy a game... back it up and use this method to play my backup. that's piracy eh? Come on, your nose is brown.

but you will donwload some games via p2p if you have the possibility. don't forget to buy the game if you like it.

[tageeboy]

As you can see this is my first post. I have finally found a thread that rattled my cage enough to make me register and post (have been lurking for months).

My Opinion is nothign, its worthless but it is this:

Many very talented people have put a great deal of time into actually defeating the ever so secure xbox360, it should have been quite obvious when M$ said it was going to be the most secure console that it would draw fire from the best of the best. Tell me which single person or team of people would like to be credited with defeating the power house M$? Heck, I would love to put that on a resume if I could.

I feel hacking goes much deeper than hardware and software... Many of you young folks may want to do some old school reading. How about the book "out of the inner circle"? How about Kevin Mitnick? If you are into piracy, so be it. Release away, if you are a "white hat hacker" great, "black hat" cool by me but to expect others to follow your rules and to respect your motivation is silly. If your in the game because you want to be the first to pull something off and get credit for it, hack it and share it, if your in it to feel good inside and know in your heart you did it first then you must accept the fact that you will go unrecgonized for your accomplishments. One thing you can be sure of is that someone will ride on your coat tails and steal your glory. If you are not aware of this yet then you have not been introducted to the corporte world. Not a day goes by that a project manager comes off the hero while the grunt DBA is actually the one who fixed the issue at 2am on his day off while the PM was sleeping.

I am quite confident that once the little back door shops start patching 360's for cash and selling games M$ will round up a bunch of them and slam them with nice criminal Lawsuits and the end users who purchased the hacks or games will get the nice civil lawsuit. Anyone remember the Direct TV days? Everyone was happy with their free tv till those letters demanding 5k out of court showed up. Same thing will probably happen with the M$ hack. Give it time.

Now that I have wasted your time I will close in saying this: My hat off to each of the people who contributed to the successful hack of the 360. M$ deserved it for being so bold about the security of the console. You each proved a valuable part in what appears to be successful hack of each drive. I will not be too confident until I see the working FW released but thats just me.

[username22]

.. hackers , they hack stuff so it can be in the hacking community , so only other hackers can use the HACK ? spetialist , i just registered because u are acting realy weird here (no offense)   

im in another szene for about 10 years now , all about paytv , and if we would act like you , where is the joy in hacking "stuff" ? so "we" can keep it in a 10-20 men group ? that never was so and never will 

i dont know how to say this all correctly , i just hope u understand what i mean , english aint my main language

regards

Ps
big thx to ALL involved in making this real !!!

[sgr215]

I don't really see what the big deal is. This all reminds me of the how-to be a hitman book. The courts found because of the nature of the book the publisher was indeed liable for several murders commited by someone who purchased the book. The same holds true to this hack. TS releases the information and even produces a video showing his hack in action. TS realizes the hack advocates piracy and proclaims he won't release it because of this. Unfortunately, the damage was already done. C4E comes around, uses the knowledge gained from TS, and creates his own FW. He then releases it to the public in an easy-to-use fasion. Even though C4E released it to the public TS is just as responsible for it's release. If TS was only doing it for the purpose of seeing if he could do it he surely wouldn't have made note of it here (in great detail) and released a video to the so called "pirates" showing what he did. Whether TS had a change of heart and decided not to release it or from day one wasn't going to release it he still released all information on how to do it which in my eyes holds him just as liable for any negative impact orginating from the hack itself. Why be surprised someone took your own advice and read your thread and developed on it? You even suggested thats what they should do minus the develope part.

I do appreciate TS's and C4E's hard work, I just don't see the need for all this drama about who did what.

[Helltick]

C4E made it happen for us "The people"...and thats what counts.
He wins!
 

[mandrake]

sorry, i meant "IF you're jealous"
but there's no need to flame him then either - some people like him for his work, other people like you for your work

Don't get me wrong, I can totally see why the piracy scene hates me for not releasing and loves C4E for doing just that. I knew from the beginning that not releasing the hack would get me seriously critized, but that's just the way it is. However, I still feel that releasing a hack has nothing to do with hacking itself and I've never been interested in doing that.

Anyway, maybe the term 'lamer' isn't correctly chosen. But again, all I'm saying: I really disrespect his attitude (releasing something and make it look like you did it yourself). But I think I've made my point now

i had asked you if you could help me in reading a sector (the instruction to read a sector - or the register where the sector number is moved to) - not too bad...

Right, seems like a techical question to me Sorry for overlooking that, if you still need help, send me a PM, no hard feelings

Message to The Specialist

The Specialist vai toma bem no meio do seu cú seu otário , o commodore4eva é um cara sangue bom ajudo todo mundo, é unido na causa dos jogadores de videogames , já vc não vale o que come seu lixo imundo vai da a rabiola por ai seu demonho .!!!!

I really want to translate that, but i not sure. The Specialist will not like it.

Obs: The scold above... or I mean: the comments above are in portuguese

[jonaspaulo]

hyz ppl had been hanging around the foruns but only now had registered. some interesting work here from all the mebers envolved TS, seventhson, commod etc thanks m8s


btw the language u say mandrake is not portuguese , its brazilian

[irascible]

but you will donwload some games via p2p if you have the possibility. don't forget to buy the game if you like it.

It's good to know we have people who know what others will and will not do in our perfect world.  It's oh so comforting 

C4E made it happen for us "The people"...and thats what counts.
He wins!
 

Let's not get too excited yet, save it for later... AFTER the hitachi firmware 

[onefornano]

This thread absolutely isn't going anywhere.

That being said, you guys aren't helping with the who gets the credits thing. Aren't you forgetting about all the other people that deserve credits.. its not just TS? There were a few people on TS' team that deserve credits too... anita99, robinsod, etc? How about the "anonymous" people that provided other info to the team? If it weren't for them, we wouldn't be as far as we are now.

It's simple really... C4E really needs to credit all the people that published the information that led to his/her hack unless the information was discovered by C4E alone (which I highly doubt). Plagiarism is bad... mmkay?

[uberfry]

onefornano: indeed it isn't going anywhere, but TS started the discussion
nothing against TS, but..
well who knows if he even did get the fw hack to work using this site?
after all, TS's team's version included the CPR_MAI bytes and his didn't...significant difference in the method of the fw being hacked...