That's not meant to be harsh btw.

The minds behind xbh 'technical work' are on another level.

They probably already thought a lot of this out.

Think.

-If encryption is added AFTER the game is built...

-And devkits don't need to play retail games or anything...

-And devkits create a security-less game, which is shipped to ms, who encrypt it themselves...

Do you think retail security is anywhere on the devkit?

Or do you think leaving it OUT is the whole point, because your idea is blindingly obvious. (Sorry. It's true though.)

I think these questions may be better off elsewhere.

Technical is mostly for experts who understand the challenges of 360 security.

They are definitely trying to answer politely, but I bet they're irked by knowledgeless 'suggestions'

I don't think dev units use 360 keys.

As far as I know:
1) A dev kit creates raw games
2) These are sent to MS
3) MS themselves add the keys/encryption

No offense, but learn to read. Don't blame others.

This has been my point the entire time.

You managed to somehow interpret every post backwards, and insult me for no reason in the process. It seems it never sunk in that I kept pointing out "that's not what I said"?

I never defended "is it out yet" whiners. I was attacking them.

The only thing I said in favor of non-contributors was...

Those who can't contribute code/hardware aren't all bad. Most of them appreciate this hard work, and don't say ungrateful crap like "is it out yet". They shouldn't punished for the few assholes who do.

I said one thing that could have been confusing, in my first post. I talk about how it would be uncool to hide something like this:

I partly mean, they aren't hiding anything. The experts are doing this (selflessly) to help everyone. If there was something out there, we'd all know.

My point has always been "This topic is incorrect, and it's going to fan the flames, and let down (the good) fans." I never once contradicted that.

I wasn't admonishing the experts, I was trying to show appreciation. (And clear up speculation.)

If I didn't word that clearly enough, I apologize, but I tried my best.

All of that is exactly my point.

This is not likely to happen, even with talented people working on it. For the next few years at least.

That's just my opinion, but you're an expert and you may as well have agreed.

Regular folk don't understand why the security is so tight this time.

It needs to be explained to them in plain english, by the experts, so they don't get false hopes.


There's nothing wrong with non-contributing tech-tards being 360 homebrew fans.

They have no right to COMPLAIN or DEMAND its arrival, but most don't do that anyway.

It's unfair to give all a bad rap for the loud few.

Most are pretty good fans, though not talented enough to do code/electronics, and many would contribute other things to make this happen, if that was possible.

There's no reason to give them false hopes, when most experts say this isn't likely for a while, if ever.




Does this thread really belong in the technical section? That's my biggest question.

I guess the main thing that bugs me is

This is just a false rumor, having nothing to do with technical anything.

Yet it's posted in a technical section.

It's surprising the moderators haven't caught this, and moved it to general or garbage.

Well that's kind of a jerk thing to say.

Sure, not every homebrew fan is smart enough to help CREATE it.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't have it, if possible.

Isn't that why homebrew is created in the first place? So everyone can enjoy it?

I thought fans and the whole homebrew 'feel' prompted more homebrew creations.

And that's good for everybody, right?

Who wants to be an elitist?

Nothing like this exists anyway, so I'm interested how the rumor even came up.

If you're talking to me, you're mistaken. I never requested help even once.

I popped in to correct these kids

I've known about the shader exploit since it first came out. I researched and executed it on my own when it first came out, like I do with everything. But that's not a hacked kernel, it's a hypervisor exploit.

If people start reading this thread and thinking there's gonna be a real homebrew kernel they'll get their hopes up for nothing. It's important to clear that up quick.

Besides the point that this topic is probably complete BS, and NO ONE has been smart enough to get a hacked bios running, it must be said.

Duplicating a design is NOTHING LIKE abusing or stealing PHYSICAL PROPERTY. They are only comparable in retarded wordplay riddled with logic holes. To 'steal' property is to physically remove it from the owners possessions so he no longer has it. A design has no physical form to 'own', can not be 'removed', and in NO way entitles the creator to dictate who builds copies, nor to the right to "potential profits". (no matter HOW long he worked on it.)

A design, and a physical object built with it, are two different things. Of COURSE you can't expect rights to use the physical car OBJECT someone else built. But you TOTALLY have the natural right to examine and duplicate the car (or let machines examine/duplicate it for you) and do as you please with the duplicate. A proper analogy would be "The next time you see someone who has spent their time designing car blueprints, ask them why they think they've got a right to restrict anyone from building the exact same layout." Which is a reasonable question.

But like I said, the whiners don't matter. You don't see ME whining. Instead we have to calmly call out the facts. As a 360 coding community, all of these talented people have been working to realize a dream, both for themselves and others. It is undeniably a bitch move, if one of them discovers it, but then runs away and keeps it to himself, leaving all the information in the dark.

Remember, this isn't just for the homebrew 'fans', it's a collective quest for information among hardware/software experts, who like to then share the info with people with less technical understanding. It's almost a collective group, that support and guide each other to the higher knowledge. If someone actually finds and HIDES the big one, people definitely have a right to judge that harshly.

Also, no one said they expect it 'for free'. The community has supported all of this. Bought the modchips, hosted the files, helped others seeking the same code-running freedom, and sit patiently and understandingly for nothing more than being included in the info sharing. As best as they could at least, since it's sort of a disembodied entity by nature anyway. I speak not so much for the thankless 'game burning' community, but the appreciative homebrew art fans from times when homebrew reigned. I'd like to think it built some pretty good merit for itself.

And pitfall, most true homebrew fans would agree with your idea anyway. I know I would. After all, homebrew is about getting to see community art at its finest, in an interactive form. I'm sure you remember when these places used to be filled with people who loved following all the original projects, not copying games. It's DEFINITELY a bad thing for homebrew that everything has become about burning. I totally agree with that.

The main issue - The topic probably isn't true, but some lame rumor. It is HIGHLY unlikely that someone cracked such a huge puzzle already. (If they EVER will.) That makes it all a moot point anyway.

The "why not make your own" thing has been played out for a long time. It was never a valid argument and everyone knows that somewhere deep down.

Besides, expert after expert has shown that in this case, it's definitely harder than that. If one really talented coder out of a million happens to stumble upon the expert-illuding secret, then all others worked for naught if he refuses to share the seeds of his knowledge.

However, if people were told that even an EVENTUAL release of something like this was coming out, i'm sure they'd be ecstatic, and willing to be as patient as need be. (With the exception of a few whiners. Who, let's be honest, don't matter anyway.)

But a lot of this is a moot point, since nothing like this was probably ever made, and at the most it's probably a silly rumor.

I'm not trying to split hairs, especially not with a board mod, but some of that is a little weak. If I'd be willing to be banned to say one thing, this would be it.

If there is such a thing out (which I doubt) and the reason it's not released is "it's not ready yet, or doesn't actually work". I agree with you about that.

If it's because the author is concerned over legal risks, that's also acceptable. Although it's a wrong law with no right to exist, it's still a law, and we have no right to expect someone to risk himself. I agree with you on that.

However, any other reason is definitely gay, especially when the whole community of experts has been busting their ass trying to make such a thing. I do agree that it's technically "his decision" but if it's just to be stingy, it's perfectly judgeable.

The old "why not make your own" argument has never been worth its salt. It's perfectly reasonable to desire a thing like this if you're willing to help out the cause. I assume they really just want to know 'why'. From that angle, the question is quite valid.

Of course this is all just my outlook, as a person who doesn't believe in copyright, but come on. Design ideas belong to no one, and can't be tagged as 'owned' just because someone made it first. If we stand for that, what else will we stand for?

Of course all of it assumes such a thing even exists, which is doubtful. Have I been living under a rock, or does the topic just sound half baked and rumor-based?

That 'for the most part' is irrelevant and confirms/proves/suggests nothing

Unless the backups were non-stealth + you've been online for more than 2 weeks afterward. Even then, your case would be strange and suspect.

It's pretty much 100% sure they ARE logging backups. The firmware experts themselves suggest so.

No one said they can log any and every backup. Only the non-stealth or badly stealthed ones, where they can actually TELL.

Your flimsy 'test' examines nothing and the 'pseudo-confirmation' convincing you is exactly that. Fake confirmation.

This is pretty much accepted and entertained by the experts, who have the superior reasoning and research. Hundreds of live virgins get banned shortly after switching to legit games only and hopping online for the first time.

They had the spring update before ever touching live, (most likely tracking their backups) because it comes on recent games.

Watch for a couple of weeks. Make sure it's not just taking time to reach/ban you.

During that time, don't play any backups other than stealth+offline.

Give us an update

No, that was about right

From reading around, it seems like that's what gets most people banned.

But yeah if you're flagged, you're flagged anyway

Confirming would at least be a constructive use.

1 BADLY MADE backup

Remember, a ton of people have been playing SELF-made, correctly stealthed backups without getting banned.

The theory, if I understand it, is like this:

The backups that get busted and logged have missing or wrong stealth data. (So the xtreme firmware loads the CORRECT stealth data from a table. This loads faster than a disk, and tells them that you're DEFINITELY playing a backup. Nothing else makes info load FASTER.)

These have probably been logged for the past update or two.

They probably waited until they'd flagged a huge majority of modders, waited a little longer until H3/Crackdown to catch a few more obvious backups online, and BANNED them all at once.  This ban-all-at-once method allowed less modders to escape, avoiding early victims who could warn others.

Pure speculation

But could it be something as simple as this?

The updated kernel itself watching disk activity for VERY specific incriminating evidence (e.g. SS loading too FAST), then changing a small bit of hex somewhere to a tiny 2 digit code marking your console as a witch

hhhhahahaaa

That's funny as crap.

But look, man.. stop being rude

Hey, here's to that

A huge cheer to all console hackers

Especially homebrew related

Thanks for calling that kind words, but it's simply the truth.

You have a solid point. That certainly equals a tight lockdown.

Maybe yoshi didn't know that, which I could understand without faulting him too hard. Extremely technical hardware stuff can be akin to rocket science, I'm certain.

Maybe he has an idea regarding those things. But even if not, he's trying for us, and he's contributed a lot for us in the past.

That's the most admirable trait about you high level hackers, exercising your mind power for everyone, building us free pathways to the information just because it's right. That matters more than the results, and adds a certain part of the depth and awe. I'm sure a lot of people share my opinion, after experiencing the harvest of so much talent from so few people in the console community.

Even when you folks aren't hearing it, people are constantly using and feeling thankful for your contributions.

I'm off to smoke and grab some eats. I hope we'll hear more soon, one way or the other